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 Teema pealkiri: Hiina ja India suhted
PostitusPostitatud: 16 Juun, 2020 19:26 
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Liitunud: 04 Juul, 2009 13:29
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Vaikselt on podisemas uus konflikt Hiina ja India vahel. Riigid veavad piiridele üksuseid ja viivad läbi õppuseid.

Viimastel andmetel sai täna vähemalt 20 India sõdurit surma
Tsiteeri:
At least 20 Indian soldiers killed in the skirmish with Chinese troops in Galwan Valley region...

https://twitter.com/rajatpTOI/status/12 ... 6950945792

Teistel andmetel 35 India ja 50 Hiina poolelt
Tsiteeri:
Around 35 on our side and 50 on Chinese side

https://twitter.com/tomar___/status/1272923678544519176

Viga on saanud üle 135 India sõduri
Tsiteeri:
This is no longer a mere 'clash'. Sources have revealed that:
At least 20 Indian troops are already dead. 3 of bullet wounds.
45 have been captured with 25 of that number having been released.
135 Indian troops are injured with some at 303 field hospital and others at GH Leh.

https://twitter.com/SJha1618/status/1272894310376235008

Tsiteeri:
*Official Statement * Indian and Chinese troops have disengaged at the Galwan area where they had earlier clashed on the night of 15/16 June 2020. 17 Indian troops who were critically injured in the line of duty at the stand off location have succumbed to their injuries.

https://twitter.com/rahulkanwal/status/ ... 7595118593

Suur kaklus
Tsiteeri:
At least three Indian soldiers were killed after a “violent face-off” with China along a disputed border region in the Himalayas on Monday.

According to an Indian army statement reported by NDTV, one Indian officer and two soldiers were killed in the clash, marking the first violent incident between India and China involving fatalities since 1975.

“During the de-escalation process underway in the Galwan Valley, a violent face-off took place yesterday night with casualties on both sides,” the Indian army statement said. “The loss of lives on the Indian side includes an officer and two soldiers. Senior military officials of the two sides are currently meeting at the venue to defuse the situation.”

NDTV reported claims the brawl began after Chinese soldiers threw stones at and attacked the Indian officer, identified as Col. B. Santosh Babu. Indian soldiers then reportedly entered the fray, which lasted several hours.

https://americanmilitarynews.com/2020/0 ... at-border/

3 India sõjaväelast läks kaduma. Üks neist koloneli auastmes.
Tsiteeri:
Sadly, Indian casualties in the violent clash with Chinese troops in the Galwan Vally region are more than the three (Colonel, JCO, jawan) confirmed earlier...many were grievously injured in the brawl...

https://twitter.com/asifsuhaf/status/12 ... 6419553281

India veab vägesid juurde
Tsiteeri:
This reinforcements of Tanks and probably troops by the Indian Army were brought to the disputed SikKim sector between China and India, in the Northeast of the Indian territory.

https://twitter.com/ISCResearch/status/ ... 8053629953

_________________
Ainus, mida me ajaloost õpime, on see, et keegi ei õpi ajaloost midagi.
Live for nothing or die for something.
Kui esimene kuul kõrvust mõõda lendab, võib kogu poliitika(demokraatia ja seadused) ära unustada.


Viimati muutis ruger, 16 Juun, 2020 23:57, muudetud 1 kord kokku.

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 Teema pealkiri: Re: Hiina ja India suhted
PostitusPostitatud: 16 Juun, 2020 20:54 
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Liitunud: 04 Juul, 2009 13:29
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Mingi kirjeldus toimunust
Pilt
https://twitter.com/Tweet2Premkumar/sta ... 0081667072

Tsiteeri:
Tension between India and China is increasing. On Monday night, 20 soldiers of India were killed in violent clashes on LAC. China has also suffered a lot in this clash. 43 of his soldiers have been killed.

https://twitter.com/elitehindi/status/1 ... 1765108737

Eesti ka avastanud
https://maailm.postimees.ee/6998505/ind ... svas-20-le

_________________
Ainus, mida me ajaloost õpime, on see, et keegi ei õpi ajaloost midagi.
Live for nothing or die for something.
Kui esimene kuul kõrvust mõõda lendab, võib kogu poliitika(demokraatia ja seadused) ära unustada.


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 Teema pealkiri: Re: Hiina ja India suhted
PostitusPostitatud: 16 Juun, 2020 23:47 
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Liitunud: 04 Juul, 2009 13:29
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India andis vajadusel loa relva kasutada
Tsiteeri:
India ordered the National Army to shoot at the #Ladakh border.

https://twitter.com/EwaEdyta/status/1272965265014259713

Eesti pool ka kirjutab pikemalt
https://maailm.postimees.ee/6998505/ind ... svas-20-le

Viimases kakluses osales ca 900+ inimest mõlemalt poolt. Kogu jama toimub ca 4,5 km kõrgusel mägedes.
Tsiteeri:
"900+ troops on each side were involved ... started Monday night, lasted several hours & ended on early hours of Tuesday. Most deaths occurred as soldiers fell-off cliffs during a physical fight in the narrow Galwan valley into the river at 15,000 feet"

"Stones, Steel poles, bamboo poles with nails embed on them, were used by the Chinese, to attack the Indian troops. The Peoples’ Liberation Army (PLA) of China, have also suffered fatal casualties."

"Detailing the incident, sources said it occurred at almost 15,000 feet ... PLA had build a fresh post and set up arctic tents at vantage position on the south bank of the Galwan river. The post gave a clear view to Chinese of the vital [DSDBO road]"

"Troops of the 16th battalion of the Bihar Regiment noticed this fresh military post near patrol point 14 and asked the Chinese to vacate. The number of Indian Troops was greater than the Chinese on the spot, a clash ensued. The PLA sent in reinforcements another clash ensued."

'The Indian soldiers, the sources said, were outnumbered at this point. Since the engagement was happening on a narrow slope, some soldiers fell into the confluence of the Shyok and Galwan rivers, the sources added. More Indian troops then rushed in ...'

"It was only in the morning that the bodies were found, including those of the soldiers who had fallen into the river ... While some of the deaths were the result of the clashes, the other soldiers died of hypothermia after falling into the cold waters of the river, sources said"

India "was supposed to stay to the west of the river junction and the Chinese to the east of the LAC — to prevent faceoffs. An argument, officers said, started over the position of Chinese soldiers who had started erecting a new post on the southern bank"

A grim detail from the Indian Express. "Some [Indian] bodies were recovered from the river while others had signs of being brutalised"

https://twitter.com/shashj/status/1272973324751167489

_________________
Ainus, mida me ajaloost õpime, on see, et keegi ei õpi ajaloost midagi.
Live for nothing or die for something.
Kui esimene kuul kõrvust mõõda lendab, võib kogu poliitika(demokraatia ja seadused) ära unustada.


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 Teema pealkiri: Re: Hiina ja India suhted
PostitusPostitatud: 17 Juun, 2020 0:12 
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Liitunud: 02 Mär, 2006 22:40
Postitusi: 592
Rõõm näha, et tänapäeva moodsad armeed veel ka kiviaegsetest nuiaga sõjapidamisviisidest lugu peavad.


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 Teema pealkiri: Re: Hiina ja India suhted
PostitusPostitatud: 17 Juun, 2020 0:30 
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Liitunud: 04 Juul, 2009 13:29
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India TV ka kannab üle. Eks harjutavad IV maailmasõja jaoks. Mehi ja muud materjali peaks neil mõlemal piisavalt olema.
https://twitter.com/carlbildt/status/12 ... 1844168704

War On The Rocks kommenteerib
https://warontherocks.com/2020/06/tensi ... se-border/

Piirkonna kaart ka NY Timesi lehelt
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/06/16/worl ... clash.html


Manused:
nytimes_konflikt_hiina_india 16062020.jpg
nytimes_konflikt_hiina_india 16062020.jpg [ 421.28 KB | Vaadatud 2990 korda ]

_________________
Ainus, mida me ajaloost õpime, on see, et keegi ei õpi ajaloost midagi.
Live for nothing or die for something.
Kui esimene kuul kõrvust mõõda lendab, võib kogu poliitika(demokraatia ja seadused) ära unustada.
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 Teema pealkiri: Re: Hiina ja India suhted
PostitusPostitatud: 17 Juun, 2020 9:49 
Eemal
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Liitunud: 10 Aug, 2010 19:55
Postitusi: 19948
Asukoht: Viljandimaa
Hukatus kirjutas:
Rõõm näha, et tänapäeva moodsad armeed veel ka kiviaegsetest nuiaga sõjapidamisviisidest lugu peavad.
Ma saan aru, et enne rünnakut oli India sõjaväelastel keelatud esimesena relva kasutada?

Niisugused lollid korraldused lõppevad alati mingi suurema hädaga :(

_________________
Miks Venemaa Ukrainas sõdib?
Kas Ukraina kaotab?
2015 jaanuari pealetung
Karmi käega valitsus Ukrainale?
Islamiterroristide hord tuleb?
Moskva jaoks ei võimutse separatistid mitte Donetskis ega Luganskis, vaid Kiievis.


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 Teema pealkiri: Re: Hiina ja India suhted
PostitusPostitatud: 17 Juun, 2020 10:09 
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Liitunud: 02 Mär, 2006 22:40
Postitusi: 592
Tsiteeri:
"Stones, Steel poles, bamboo poles with nails embed on them, were used by the Chinese, to attack the Indian troops. ... While some of the deaths were the result of the clashes, the other soldiers died of hypothermia after falling into the cold waters of the river, sources said"

Ründavad hiinlased kasutasid kaikaid, enamus ohvreid külmus surnuks.
Korralik "aumeeste" lööma oli, mitte ühepoolne tulirelvadega lahing.


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 Teema pealkiri: Re: Hiina ja India suhted
PostitusPostitatud: 17 Juun, 2020 10:10 
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Liitunud: 10 Aug, 2010 19:55
Postitusi: 19948
Asukoht: Viljandimaa
Just - kaikarünnak seetõttu ette võetigi, et oli eelinfo, et vastane tulirelva ei kasuta.

_________________
Miks Venemaa Ukrainas sõdib?
Kas Ukraina kaotab?
2015 jaanuari pealetung
Karmi käega valitsus Ukrainale?
Islamiterroristide hord tuleb?
Moskva jaoks ei võimutse separatistid mitte Donetskis ega Luganskis, vaid Kiievis.


Üles
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 Teema pealkiri: Re: Hiina ja India suhted
PostitusPostitatud: 17 Juun, 2020 19:01 
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Liitunud: 04 Juul, 2009 13:29
Postitusi: 8259
SEPKA-Pakistan ajab ka oma tegevust seal piirkonnas veidi soojemaks.
Tsiteeri:
OSINT handles are reporting PAF jets flying over Karachi, heavy PAF movements along LOC and IB

And worst: Reports of some Civillian Airport taken over by PAF

https://twitter.com/sanjeev_goyal/statu ... 2664785922

SEPKA-India poolel käitumine
Tsiteeri:
Army Navy Air Force at highest level of Alert

Forward movement of all assets including Ships , Fighter Jets and troops

Rules of Engagement at LAC has changed. Local commanders told 'do what you need to when hostilities with PLA erupts '

No military level talks.

https://twitter.com/shreyadhoundial/sta ... 0831011846

India teeb ettevalmistusi võimalike vajalike varude kasutuselevõtuks
Tsiteeri:
India has given powers to armed forces to make emergency procurements to stock up its war reserves in the wake of escalating conflict with China along the Line of Actual Control. Fighters, warships moved to forward bases after bloodiest day in Ladakh.

https://twitter.com/AdityaRajKaul/statu ... 8258712576

Hiina ja India välisministrid arutavad tekkinud kriisi.
Tsiteeri:
India, China foreign ministers discuss border clash.

https://twitter.com/AJENews/status/1273213855607541761

EDIT 22:12
Eesti poolelt ka üsna hea kokkuvõte
https://maailm.postimees.ee/6999459/hii ... kaigastega

_________________
Ainus, mida me ajaloost õpime, on see, et keegi ei õpi ajaloost midagi.
Live for nothing or die for something.
Kui esimene kuul kõrvust mõõda lendab, võib kogu poliitika(demokraatia ja seadused) ära unustada.


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 Teema pealkiri: Re: Hiina ja India suhted
PostitusPostitatud: 18 Juun, 2020 10:32 
Eemal
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Liitunud: 10 Aug, 2010 19:55
Postitusi: 19948
Asukoht: Viljandimaa
Tsiteeri:
Hiina politoloog Long Xingchun märkis New York Timesile, et suur ohvrite hulk teeb väärika taganemise mõlemale riigile raskemaks. „Hiina ja India vaheline vastasseis on kestnud aastakümneid, aga poolte uhkuseks pole olnud tulistamist ega hukkunuid,” ütles Long. „Mingit põhjust sellise asja juhtumiseks polnud, kui tegu ei olnud just sõjaväelaste kontrolli alt väljunud konfliktiga.” Praegune tinglik eraldusjoon on laias laastus kehtinud 1962. aastal toimunud India-Hiina sõjast. Viimane hukkunutega juhtum oli 1975. aastal, kui Hiina sõdurite väidetavas varitsuses hukkus neli India sõdurit.

Pingemaanduse huvides on mõlema poole sõduritel rangelt keelatud tulirelva kasutada ja keelust peeti kinni ka esmaspäevase lahingu käigus. Kivide, kaigaste ja metallkangidega peetud kähmlusi toimub vaidlusalusel alal regulaarselt. [...]

India ametnike sõnul puhkes konflikt sõdurite vahel peetud läbirääkimiste käigus. India versiooni järgi käis nende komandör hiinlastega arutamas, kuidas vastastikuseid pingeid maandada. Kohtumise juures viibis sadu sõdureid. Arutelu kasvas üle vaidluseks ja see omakorda veriseks kakluseks. Guardianiga vestelnud India allikate sõnul olevat Hiina ohvitserid neid solvanud ja tekkis kähmlus, mille käigus kukkus India komandör kaljuservalt alla. „Nad ründasid metallkaigastega, komandör sai rängalt viga ja kukkus,” ütles India valitsusallikas Reutersile.

Löömingu teravnedes saabus mõlemale poolele abijõude ja võitlus vältas mitu tundi. Suurem osa kaotusi paistab olevat saadud kukkumise tagajärjel. India armee ametliku teate järgi suri kolm nende sõjaväelast kohapeal ja 17 saadud vigastusse hiljem. Samuti on veel kümned sõdurid teadmata kadunud ja võivad olla Hiina poole käes vangis. India armee kinnitusel hukkus võitluses ka Hiina sõdureid.
https://epl.delfi.ee/valismaa/piirialad ... d=90200379

_________________
Miks Venemaa Ukrainas sõdib?
Kas Ukraina kaotab?
2015 jaanuari pealetung
Karmi käega valitsus Ukrainale?
Islamiterroristide hord tuleb?
Moskva jaoks ei võimutse separatistid mitte Donetskis ega Luganskis, vaid Kiievis.


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 Teema pealkiri: Re: Hiina ja India suhted
PostitusPostitatud: 21 Juun, 2020 15:22 
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Liitunud: 04 Juul, 2009 13:29
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India poolelt ülevaade, mis toimus
Tsiteeri:
The context is well known. Ten days prior, Lieutenant General-level talks had taken place and disengagement between both sides had begun at Patrol Point 14, since both had mobilised very close to the Line of Actual Control.

A Chinese observation post, which had been set up at the vertex of the bend in the Galwan River was proven, during talks, to be on the Indian side of the LAC, and an agreement had been reached to remove it. A few days after talks the post was dismantled by the Chinese. Commanding Officer of the 16 Bihar infantry battalion controlling the area Colonel B Santosh Babu even held talks with a counterpart Chinese officer on the day after the Chinese dismantled the camp.

But on June 14, the camp unexpectedly re-emerged overnight.

At around 5pm on June 15, while the sun was still very much up, Colonel Babu decided to personally lead a team to the camp. Having spoken just a few days prior with the other side, the Commanding Officer is said to have wondered whether there had been a mistake. While young officers and jawans were raring to remove the Chinese post themselves, Colonel Babu, known to be a highly sober, cool-headed officer who had in a previous stint also served as a company commander in the area, decided to personally go.

In normal course, a Company Commander (Major rank) would probably have been sent to check. But Colonel Babu decided not to leave it to 'youngsters' in the unit. It is important to remember here that tempers were not up.

The young officers and jawans were simply motivated by the prospect of a task in a narrow river valley that has seen nearly no tactical disputes of any kind -- and where troops on either side have actually been quite friendly.The context is well known. Ten days prior, Lieutenant General-level talks had taken place and disengagement between both sides had begun at Patrol Point 14, since both had mobilised very close to the Line of Actual Control.

A Chinese observation post, which had been set up at the vertex of the bend in the Galwan River was proven, during talks, to be on the Indian side of the LAC, and an agreement had been reached to remove it. A few days after talks the post was dismantled by the Chinese. Commanding Officer of the 16 Bihar infantry battalion controlling the area Colonel B Santosh Babu even held talks with a counterpart Chinese officer on the day after the Chinese dismantled the camp.

But on June 14, the camp unexpectedly re-emerged overnight.

At around 5pm on June 15, while the sun was still very much up, Colonel Babu decided to personally lead a team to the camp. Having spoken just a few days prior with the other side, the Commanding Officer is said to have wondered whether there had been a mistake. While young officers and jawans were raring to remove the Chinese post themselves, Colonel Babu, known to be a highly sober, cool-headed officer who had in a previous stint also served as a company commander in the area, decided to personally go.

In normal course, a Company Commander (Major rank) would probably have been sent to check. But Colonel Babu decided not to leave it to 'youngsters' in the unit. It is important to remember here that tempers were not up.

The young officers and jawans were simply motivated by the prospect of a task in a narrow river valley that has seen nearly no tactical disputes of any kind -- and where troops on either side have actually been quite friendly.

At 7pm, Colonel Babu along with a team of about 35 men, including two Majors, proceeded on foot to the post. The mood in the team was not one of belligerence, but rather of inquiry. When they reached the Chinese camp, the first thing the Indian team noticed was that the Chinese troops didn't seem familiar -- they weren't the PLA troops normally deployed in the area.

The men of 16 Bihar had built familiarity with the Chinese unit, and had expected to run into troops and officers they already knew. The fresh faces was the first surprise. It has been assessed during a debrief that the 'new' Chinese troops at the offending post were from a pool freshly diverted from a PLA exercise in Tibet in the second half of May.

The men of 16 Bihar had received word at the time about the arrival of the 'new' PLA troops, but it was clear they were restricted to the 'depth' areas deep on their side of the LAC.

These 'new' Chinese troops were immediately belligerent once the Indian team arrived. When Colonel Babu opened the conversation, asking why the post had been re-erected, a Chinese soldier stepped up and pushed the Indian Colonel backwards hard, with expletives in the Chinese language.

In an Army unit, as several voices have since articulated, seeing your Commanding Officer disrespected and assaulted thus is equivalent to seeing your parents physically abused. The reaction was instant. The Indian team pounced on the Chinese. The fight strictly was a proper fist-fight with no melee weapons of any kind. This was the first brawl and ended about 30 minutes later with injuries on both sides, but the Indian team prevailing.

They rounded off the sparring by smashing and then burning the Chinese post to ashes. The pushing of their Commanding Officer had already crossed a very dangerous red line.

https://www.indiatoday.in/india/story/3 ... 2020-06-21

_________________
Ainus, mida me ajaloost õpime, on see, et keegi ei õpi ajaloost midagi.
Live for nothing or die for something.
Kui esimene kuul kõrvust mõõda lendab, võib kogu poliitika(demokraatia ja seadused) ära unustada.


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 Teema pealkiri: Re: Hiina ja India suhted
PostitusPostitatud: 26 Juun, 2020 0:20 
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Liitunud: 04 Juul, 2009 13:29
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Hiina liigutas S-400 õhutõrjesüsteemi konfliktipiirkonda
Tsiteeri:
Media Reports indicated that the Chinses have moved their S-400 AD missile system to Ladakh. This is currently The worlds most advanced system and Indicates that the Chinese are Now really mortally scared after 15-16 June Clash

https://twitter.com/GeneralBakshi/statu ... 0898137088

_________________
Ainus, mida me ajaloost õpime, on see, et keegi ei õpi ajaloost midagi.
Live for nothing or die for something.
Kui esimene kuul kõrvust mõõda lendab, võib kogu poliitika(demokraatia ja seadused) ära unustada.


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 Teema pealkiri: Re: Hiina ja India suhted
PostitusPostitatud: 26 Juun, 2020 8:22 
Eemal
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Liitunud: 25 Mär, 2016 22:16
Postitusi: 4991
Tsiteeri:
This is currently The worlds most advanced system

No ma ei tea...

Hiinlased lihtsalt katavad oma tagumikku - igaksjuhuks. Kui siiani pole mingit tõsist eskalatsiooni järgnenud, siis vaevalt see nüüdki juhtub.


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 Teema pealkiri: Re: Hiina ja India suhted
PostitusPostitatud: 23 Juul, 2020 12:16 
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Liitunud: 04 Juul, 2009 13:29
Postitusi: 8259
India andmetel on Hiina piirkonda viinud suures koguses vägesid (ca 40 000 meest)
https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/ind ... 108290.cms

Kaart uutest punktidest konfliktipiirkonnas
Pilt
https://twitter.com/SimTack/status/1285 ... mw2NgjAAAA

_________________
Ainus, mida me ajaloost õpime, on see, et keegi ei õpi ajaloost midagi.
Live for nothing or die for something.
Kui esimene kuul kõrvust mõõda lendab, võib kogu poliitika(demokraatia ja seadused) ära unustada.


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 Teema pealkiri: Re: Hiina ja India suhted
PostitusPostitatud: 03 Aug, 2020 20:11 
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Liitunud: 30 Okt, 2005 22:13
Postitusi: 1191
Asukoht: Tallinn
Kriku kirjutas:
Hukatus kirjutas:
Rõõm näha, et tänapäeva moodsad armeed veel ka kiviaegsetest nuiaga sõjapidamisviisidest lugu peavad.
Ma saan aru, et enne rünnakut oli India sõjaväelastel keelatud esimesena relva kasutada?

Niisugused lollid korraldused lõppevad alati mingi suurema hädaga :(


Ma arvan, et kumbki pool üritab iga hinna eest tuumasõda vältida. Indial on käimas ka lennuväe ringi relvastamine, tankiüksustega on probleemme jne. Valel ajal sõja alustamine tähendaks kaotust aga kui need inimesed oleksid tulevahetuse käigus surma saanud, siis oleks võib-olla eskaleerumine olnud kiirem ja suur sõda ka juba käes. Pakistan kasutaks seda ka kohe hetkeliselt ära ja see on ju kolmas tuumariik seal, kes igatseb hindude verd.

_________________
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