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 Teema pealkiri: IAR võib kergekuulipildujad välja vahetada
PostitusPostitatud: 10 Nov, 2010 20:00 
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Infantry Automatic Rifle ‘Could’ Replace all SAWs

November 9, 2010

Tsiteeri:
Incoming Marine Corps Commandant Jim Amos said during a “Town Hall” meeting at Quantico that he was so impressed with the M-27 Infantry Automatic Rifle that the highly accurate machine carbine could mean the demise of the M-249 Squad Automatic Weapon.


Tsiteeri:
So Amos is bullish on weight and impressed with the IAR, but he clearly recognizes the internal debate within the Corps over the IAR’s utility (the Gunners are very into it) when he says “could” instead of “would” but also realizes that the kind of accuracy gained from the H&K-built M-27 could be a tactical game changer on more than one level.


http://kitup.military.com/2010/11/infantry-automatic-rifle-could-replace-all-saws.html


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PostitusPostitatud: 10 Nov, 2010 22:55 
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Multimiljon usd välja lypsma on igal ajal hea möte.
LMG-d on alati olemas olnud. Optika peale panna- hea möte.
Aga 30 pdr salv -no no. 50 salv.. kahtlen asja möttes.

Peale selle- vabaluku asi läheb umbe. On kogu oma eksistentsi ajal läind umbe. Inimesed on jäänd lahingus paljakäsi selle stoneri pyssi töttu. No No.


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PostitusPostitatud: 10 Nov, 2010 23:36 
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Mehed on 2001. aastast sõjas olnud. Ma arvan, et soov sellised relvad saada ei tekkinud kusagil sametises salongis. Kui spekuleerida relvalobi mõju üle selle otsusega seoses, siis tekib mul küsimus, et kas sakslaste HK on terve kongressi kinni maksnud :) Mina ootan küll suure huviga kes järgmise USA armee automaadi konkursi kinni paneb.


Tsiteeri:
Sep 14, 2010

The Army also launched a contract competition in August for a next-generation carbine, which could be fielded in 2012.

Nearly all infantry soldiers use M4s, but in the Corps they are fielded primarily to vehicle operators and other Marines whose jobs render the primary service rifle, the M16A4, too cumbersome. The Corps has no plans to upgrade either rifle, Lt. Gen. George Flynn, deputy commandant for combat development and integration, told Marine Corps Times on Aug. 23.

“As far as the weapons for the infantry squad right now, the only thing we’re looking at is the infantry automatic rifle,” said Flynn, referring to the 5.56mm weapon the Corps is considering as a replacement for the M249 squad automatic weapon in some infantry formations. IAR tests are ongoing.


http://www.marinecorpstimes.com/news/2010/09/marine-corps-passes-on-army-carbine-updates-091110w/


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PostitusPostitatud: 11 Nov, 2010 10:02 
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Uuups. Nyyd läks puusse. H&K?. Jälle jälle kiirustamine on mind siin lolliks teind.

IAR Ei Ole Stoner, M16 perekonda kuuluv relv, mis on kirutud maa pöhja.

IAR On HK416/417. See on Gas piston - so gaasikolviga -so sama systeem mis kalass.

"uus relvaklass" on silt, mis on pandud kylge, et army kosher Stonerist yle vöi ymber saada. Link: http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2010 ... tic-rifle/

Arvatavasti jääb ryhmas kolmjalaga GPMG alles, see siin on möeldud jaole, nendele kes teevad tihedalt tuld ja liikumist.

Minu poolsed vabandused eksitusest


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PostitusPostitatud: 11 Nov, 2010 11:34 
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UR, eks me näe neid Stoneri-taolisi relvi veel küll ja küll. Iga firma tahab endale jänkide järgmisel automaadi konkursil suure tüki krabada. Kui vaadata näiteks seda M4 videot, siis mis tal häda :)

http://video.nytimes.com/video/2010/01/12/world/asia/1247466496261/m-4a1-firing-test.html


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PostitusPostitatud: 19 Nov, 2010 18:57 
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Lt. Gen. George Flynn, who heads the Marine Corps Combat Development Command in Quantico, told reporters at a Washington, D.C. breakfast that the service plans to finish outfitting five battalions with the new M-27 Infantry Automatic Rifle next month and then will observe how those Marines use it on deployment before changing the organization, training, and tactics of infantry units around the new weapon.


http://www.military.com/news/article/marines-unsure-of-new-rifle-plan-.html


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PostitusPostitatud: 22 Nov, 2010 16:16 
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Siit teeme praktilise järelduse - ei ole ka sealpool suurt lompi elu suur moos. Kena video. Tänud.


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PostitusPostitatud: 24 Nov, 2010 20:41 
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Tsiteeri:
Flynn pushed back at critics of the M-27, saying the improved accuracy of the Heckler and Koch-made automatic rifle makes up for a lower rate of fire compared to the M-249 Squad Automatic Weapon it’s being fielded to replace.

“The initial feedback was that the IAR performed pretty well,” Flynn said of early evaluations of the M-27. “Accuracy has a suppressive power all by itself.”

The introduction of the M-27 is a return to the roots of the Marine infantry squad, Flynn argued, which featured an “automatic rifleman” that eventually evolved into a light machine gunner with the introduction of the SAW in the 1980s.


http://kitup.military.com/2010/11/corps-waiting-on-m-27-infantry-automatic-weapon-fielding-plan.html


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PostitusPostitatud: 08 Dets, 2010 22:19 
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See kommentaar sobib vist teemasse.

Ken White:

Tsiteeri:
The significant overuse of automatic fire by Riflemen is one such habit. The US Forces 'learned' to do that in Viet Nam and it became embedded. It is, as you discern, a terrible waste of ammunition and -- probably really more importantly, load carrying and general logistic capability. Basically, I'm firmly convinced that your perception is quite accurate and that pun is intended. Volume of fire is not nearly as important as the accuracy of that fire. A nominal basic load of seven Mags, 210 rounds, per rifle is more than adequate for most things but the carrying of an additional 3-400 rounds started in Viet Nam and is still allowed. It should not be.

As Fuchs writes, accuracy can be overstated but not by much -- the real issue is location of the correct targets --as the Storr article linked by Fuchs states and as the anecdote on the river crossing illustrates. The issue is not pinpoint, one shot - one target accuracy, the issue is the amount of relatively accurate fire placed on or near the correct target area. As you note, well trained opponents will not be deterred for a second by poorly place fire, no matter the volume.

The US failure is to adequately train in two areas; fire discipline or control and target detection. The old target detection ranges, created as a result of hard won WW II experience, essentially fell into disuse after Korea and the availability of a full automatic individual weapon and tons of ammunition in Viet Nam effectively killed the knowledge of the importance of the skill. The Army's adoption of the terribly flawed Task, Condition and Standard 'training' system -- it is not training, it is instruction and a poor instructional methodology at that -- mean that we send folks off to war missing essential, life saving skills. Doctrine states that NCOs and Officers control fire -- reality states they cannot actually do that all too often, thus Joe has to know what to do -- and he has to be trained in order to do that. Unfortunately, it's easier to 'train' him to "Fire when and where your Squad Leader tells you..."

We should generally preclude full automatic fire unless the METT-TC factors call for it and in my experience that is relatively, even surprisingly, rarely. Correctly assessing the METT-TC factors is critically important, basic individual skills provide the ability to do that, every lowly Rifleman should be able to do that and we do not train them to do so -- they have to learn by doing in combat and that kills too many needlessly before they figure it out. We should better train both target detection AND marksmanship; the Troops are capable of doing more than we allow them to do...

We should also reduce the allowable amount of ammunition.

Getting rid of the SAW / M249 would also be a step forward. The Marines are on the right track with an Automatic Rifle, one per fire team...


http://council.smallwarsjournal.com/showthread.php?t=11968


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PostitusPostitatud: 08 Dets, 2010 23:48 
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IAR ei ole isegi mitte niivõrd kergekuulipilduja asendamine, kuivõrd mõnes mõttes kaotatud positsiooni tagasi võtmine. Enne M249-at (enne 1980ndate keskpaika, mitmel pool veel 90ndate lõpulgi) täitis jänkidel kergekuulipilduja rolli M16A1. Meest kes seda kasutas nimetati automatic rifleman ja sellepärast, e tema oli üks neist kahest-kolmest mehest jaos, kes oli treenitud valangutega laskma. Vastavalt ülejäänud jagu kasutas peamiselt üksiklaske ja valangutega laskmine oli lubatud ainult erandjuhtudel.

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PostitusPostitatud: 10 Dets, 2010 14:59 
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Juba viidatud Smallwarsjournali lingi all postitas Compost artikli Automatic Rifle Concept: —History and Empirical Testing


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PostitusPostitatud: 28 Dets, 2010 18:55 
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Ei tahaks hästi uskuda, et USMC hakkab seni edukat jao kergekuulipildujat mingi tavalise automaadi vastu välja vahetama. Pigem oli tegu mingi JOKK skeemiga.

\\\\\\\"After extensive trials in 2009 USMC finally selected the HK IAR rifle, which, in fact, is no more that heavy-barreled version of their HK 416 automatic carbine (assault rifle), and it hardly looks like adequate replacement for a dedicated squad automatic weapon with belt feed and quick-change barrel. By all accounts, it looks like USMC played the whole IAR trick to get the replacement for their M4 carbines without entering the political hassle and budgetary debates.\\\\\\\"


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PostitusPostitatud: 16 Juun, 2011 23:39 
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Corps to Replace SAW With Automatic Rifle
June 14, 2011

Tsiteeri:
Program officials plan to spend about $13 million to field all 4,476 M27s by late summer 2013, Clark said. In addition to the guns, that money also pays for spare parts, tools and gauges, he said.


Tsiteeri:
But accuracy seems to be the key to the M27's effectiveness, Clark said. The auto rifle is already showing signs that it could to be twice as accurate as the Marine M16A4.


Tsiteeri:
Currently, the Marines have two battalions of M27s in Afghanistan and another three preparing to deploy. Marine battalions will also keep nine M249s per rifle company to allow commanders to beef up firepower when needed.

The M27s will be equipped with the Marine Corps SAW Day Optic, made by Trijicon. They will also have an AN/PEQ 16A laser pointer and integrated white light, Harris bipod legs and a vertical forward grip.


http://www.military.com/news/article/corps-to-replace-saw-with-automatic-rifle.html

Kui see HK nii täpne on, siis millega jao tellid tegelema hakkavad :)


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PostitusPostitatud: 28 Juun, 2011 14:44 
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Pilt
post image wordpress

http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2011/06/28/first-m27-iar-afganistan-photos/


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PostitusPostitatud: 29 Juun, 2011 15:39 
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[quote=\\"kaur3\\"]
Kui see HK nii täpne on, siis millega jao tellid tegelema hakkavad :)[/quote]

Samas sakslasi ei rahuldanud see senine G27(HK-417/MR-308) hoopiski mitte.


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