Re: "Estonia" - raske tee tõeni
Postitatud: 28 Sept, 2020 10:38
Kööga oli ikka siis, kui visiir ära tuli. Küsimus on, kas kokkupõrge võis olla niiöelda viimane sulg kaameli koormas, mille tagajärjel visiiri kinnitus katkes...?
Militaarteemad minevikust kaasaega
https://www.militaar.net/phpBB2/
Kardan seda sama, et dokksari ise on üks järjekordne "põgenenud Hitleri otsing", kus mõneks sekundiks näed vrakki ja ülejäänud aja erinevad onukesed vaagimas teooriad ja tõsise näoga kaamerasse ohkimas "this is unbelievable". Sooviti ju dokksarjas ka Eesti ametnike reaktsiooni filmida, kuid nad videot vaatavad.Suurim asi mis ma loodan/lootsin sellest dokist näha on värskeid kaadreid, et mis seisukorras see vrakk praegu on. Kõige enam kardan ma, et üldisemate panoraampiltide asemel saame mingeid paari sekundilisi klippe, kaamera vastu vrakikere koos dramaatilise tümpsuga ning ülejäänud 55 minutit "doki" sisustatakse onudega kes vahivad kaamerasse ning korrutavad kivinäoga "see ei ole võimalik".
Nii ja naa...siiani on ju tunnistused, mis väitsid alumistelt dekkidelt vett trepišahtidest üles pressivat, enne kui autodekk veega täitus minu arusaamist mööda kaunis ükskõikselt kui ebaadekvaatne jutt kõrvale lükatudilmselt nii nagu ametlik versioon väidab nii ka umbes oli, ehk visiir oli number üks põhjus.
https://maailm.postimees.ee/7072630/est ... kokkuporgeProfessori sõnul on üsna täpselt võimalik välja arvutada, millist jõudu läheb tarvis, et selliseid vigastusi laeva kerele tekitada ning selle baasil saab ka oletada, millise massiga ese Estoniat tabas. «Seda tuleks uurida lähemalt,» lisas ta. Amdahli arvutuste kohaselt tabas Estoniat maksimaalselt 500–600 tonnine jõud. Ta toob võrdluseks, et sellist mõju avaldaks näiteks 1000 tonni kaaluv kalalaev, mis liigub kiirusega neli sõlme või 5000-tonnine laev kiirusega 1,9 sõlme.
No ei taha kuidagi uskuda juttu Rootsi või Vene allveelaevast. Visiir oli eest läinud ka tunnistajate ütluste kohaselt, teiseks mõni erruläinud swensson oleks ammu kella külge pannud, kuidas nad oma allveelaeva Estonia hukuööl samas piirkonnas ära retsisid. Laeval on veekindlad sektsioonid, seega see auk üksi ei saaks uputada laeva ja tulles tagasi algusesse, kuidas krt see visiir sealt eest siis ära lendas, kui oli kokkupõrge allveelaevaga? Igal juhul, uus uurimine on tervitatav ja erinevalt tollasest olukorrast, kus Eesti riik oli nö palja peega, peaks just Eesti uut uurimist juhtima. Miks swenssonid vrakki betooni ja liivaga tahtsid katta , sellel võibolla on palju banaalsem põhjus, äkki veeti salaja jälle mingeid relvakomponente ja ei tahetud, et see välja tuleb.See seletaks küll svenssonite agarust betoneerimisel.
Kuidagi kokkusattumus et auk just seal kus magasid enamuses pääsenutest... esimesel fotol näha ka et enamus ellujäänud tunnistajaid paremast pardast... Mis selle augu võis tekitada - jään vastuse võlgu, niipalju võin ka kinnitada et tekemist on lokaalse välise mõjutusega, ei saanud olla iseeneselik rebend, välistaks ka lõhkekeha. Paraku mis kujuga... merekonteineri nurk oleks küll hea idee aga see pidi liikuma märkimisväärse kiirusega laeva keskkoha suhtes ja tõenäosus et laine, konteiner ja laev selliselt suhtestuksid on ikka väga nullilähedane augu asukohta arvestades.Ants Nadar - cabin 1025 - 46 years old - Enclosure 21.3.1.298:
- was in bed - woke up due to hard banging noises, started to climb up to deck when the vessel suddenly heeled to starboard.
Bengt Nilsson - cabin 1026 - 35 years old - Enclosure 20.238:
- the vessel left the berth when they entered the restaurant, i.e. at 19.30 hours board time or later (because restaurant only opens at 19.30 hours);
- went at 22.00 hours on deck also to forward of deck 7 - could not see anything abnormal - it was very dark;
- was there twice again later - no change except increasing storm and higher seas;
- at ca. 23.00 hours - must be Swedish time - he went to bed, but could not sleep due to heavy labouring of the vessel and something beating frequently against the hull very heavily;
- he noted after an hour or so that it began to roar (scream, howl), squeak, shriek, scrape and finally he heard a sharp metallic breaking noise at the starboard side and aft of him, and formed the opinion that something was wrong;
Note: His cabin was next to the cabin of Martin Nilsson, i.e. also above the starboard heeling tanks/starboard stabiliser space. He was lying in his bed with his head aft. The noises came from starboard aft of abeam.
- when he had reached that conclusion the vessel started to heel to starboard;
- he opened his door and saw Martin Nilsson jumping past him;
- he rushed upwards and heard strange noises.
- when he reached the deck above (car deck) he saw water penetrating the lower part of the car deck door and when he was holding his hand to the wall aft of the door he noted that the wall was covered with white powder and foam which was slowly running down the wall.
- he continued upwards and saw no more water in the stairways.
Note: The car deck door was at the starboard side of the centre casing. The apparent fact that water penetrated the door, although the vessel heeled to starboard, demonstrates that the water level on the car deck must have been high.
Jasmina Waidinger - cabin 1027 - statement made on 29.09.94 - Enclosure 21.3.1.296:
- went to bed ca. 23.30 hours (Swedish time) and changed beds shortly afterwards with Daniel Svensson;
- both heard strange noises "as if the sea was striking against the vessel's bow";
- they discussed the situation when Daniel's alarm clock rang at midnight;
- she dozed for some minutes - she believes ca. 5 - when there was a "hard bang" from the car deck;
- at the same time the vessel heeled over to starboard and Daniel Svensson rushed out of the cabin while she dressed and followed;
- when she jumped out of her cabin door she saw water in the alleyway which trickled from somewhere;
- she estimates the time from hearing the "hard bang" to being washed overboard when the vessel was on the side at about 1/2 hour.
Statement made on 04.10.94 - Enclosure 21.3.1.297:
- went to the cabin ca. 23.15 - 23.20 hours (Swedish time);
- at ca. 23.30 hours went to another cabin to ask for pills, noticed nothing abnormal then;
- when she was in her bed she heard banging noises which she and Daniel Svensson did not consider to be normal; - they discussed this and she thought of the stabilisers, how they might function, etc. when she heard a rushing sound, which was low in its intensity and which she had not heard before;
- it seemed to her that the rushing sound came from above and appeared to her like water running rather slowly;
- they heard the sound of Daniel's clock indicating midnight which was confirmed when she looked at her watch;
- she was lying in her bed dozing a bit, but did not sleep when she suddenly heard the strong noise above her cabin ceiling which appeared to her to be "something big and strong moving from one place to another";
- immediately after this noise the vessel heeled over and Daniel shouted that they had to get out at once;
- at the same time when Daniel jumped out of the cabin door he shouted that "there was water in the alleyway";
- outside the cabin she was able to lean against a wall and pull up her jeans when she saw water penetrating the floor in front of the cabin.
Note: This area was directly above the allegedly empty starboard heeling tank which apparently was now full. This could have been affected by the opened cross-flooding valve between the full port and the allegedly empty starboard heeling tank. On the other hand the starboard heeling tank could have been full all the time. - See Subchapter 17.1 and 29.5.
Daniel Svensson - cabin 1027 - Enclosure 21.3.1.295:
- was in this cabin with Jasmina Waidinger, but has mixed up port/ starboard, forward/aft and decks 6/7;
- vessel was pitching and rolling, at each pitch movement something was beating against the hull - "as if someone were hammering with a big stone".
Note: This is probably what Carl Övberg has identified as "sledge-hammer banging".
- suddenly the vessel heeled - what he believes was to port - ca. 20°-30° but continued to heel deeper;
- he jumped into the alleyway and rushed upwards;
- when he passed the car deck he saw water penetrating the car deck doors, on the floor there were ca. 10 cm of water;
- he heard crashing and squeaking noises and a car alarm from the car deck.
Martin Nilsson - cabin 1028 - 22 years - Enclosure 21.3.1.294.
Martin had told the police that his cabin no. was 1027, however, according to the drawing he made showing his way up, it was cabin no. 1028. The drawing is attached to his statement, which can be summarized as follows: - He went to bed at 23.00-23.30 hours, noticed heavy movements of the vessel and lots of cracking noises. He also heard that something was frequently heavily beating against the vessel;
- About 10-15 minutes before the accident became a fact, i.e. before the big heel, he woke up from the heavy movements of the vessel, heard a scraping noise, i.e. it was cracking and scraping very close to him on the deck above him. This was (for him) the introduction to the developments which ended in the catastrophe;
- A little later Martin felt that the noises were connected to the shaking of the vessel, and then the vessel began to heel noticeably. He and his bed moved upwards while the others in their beds on the opposite side of the cabin moved downwards. He is unable to explain this in more detail. Simultaneously the strong scraping noise was being continuously heard and then Jan Gustavsson said: "Now we have run aground." So clear and distinct was this noise;
Note: Since noises associated with "running aground" cannot originate from above but must have come from below, this was probably a wrong description or memory of Martin Nilsson. Below him were the starboard heeling tank and the pocket of the starboard stabiliser.
- He left the cabin and jumped up one flight of stairs to the next deck (car deck), where he noted several centimetres of water on the floor;
- When he had reached the boat deck he observed two crew members talking into walkie-talkies;
- A search light was shining from vessel's side into the water; the lights went out/on several times;
- He saw the lights of a ferry far away.
Allveelaev hukkus samuti, kuid tõsteti üles?Ghostship kirjutas:Kuradi kõva kerega allveelaev siis oli svenssonitel, tõeline rootsi raud...
Üldiselt lõpevad igasugused kokkupõrked suurte laevadega allveelaevadele väga halvasti (erinevalt Jules Verne raamatutest).
Allveelaeva ülestõstmine on samuti suur ja keeruline operatsioon, seda oleks tähele pandud. Samas võibolla valati just allveelaevale seda liiva peale, et jälgi peita.Kriku kirjutas:Allveelaev hukkus samuti, kuid tõsteti üles?Ghostship kirjutas:Kuradi kõva kerega allveelaev siis oli svenssonitel, tõeline rootsi raud...
Üldiselt lõpevad igasugused kokkupõrked suurte laevadega allveelaevadele väga halvasti (erinevalt Jules Verne raamatutest).